In a brief press conference on the plane returning from Belgium, Pope Francis answered questions including one on Israel’s targeted killings in Lebanon and Gaza, and others related to his meeting with abuse victims in Brussels, the role of women in society and the reason why he thinks the former Belgian King Baudouin should be canonized.
An American television journalist asked the first question.
We read this morning that 900 kilogram bombs were used for the targeted assassination of Nasrallah. There are more than a thousand displaced, many dead. Do you think that Israel has perhaps gone too far with Lebanon and Gaza? And how can this be resolved? Is there a message for these people there?
Pope Francis began by saying, “Every day I call the parish in Gaza which has more than 600 persons, and they tell me about the things that happen, and also the cruelty that happens there.”
“Defense must always be proportionate to the attack,” the pope said. “When there is something disproportionate, we see a dominating tendency that goes beyond morality. When a country with its forces does these things—whatever country—does these things in such a superlative [over the top] way, they are immoral actions.”
Although the question was focused on Israel, Pope Francis diplomatically avoided naming the country and said, “whatever country,” but his response was clear and did not exclude Israel.
He recalled that morality exists in war, even if the war itself is immoral. Rules of war are signs of some degree of morality.
“But when this does not happen,” he said, meaning when the rules of war are ignored, “we see—as we say in Argentina—‘bad blood.’” The expression “bad blood” in this context means “bad intentions.”
On Friday evening, Pope Francis had a two hour meeting at the nunciature with 17 victims of sexual abuse by clergy in Belgium. On the plane a Flemish speaking journalist said the victims often spoke about “cries of desperation, lack of transparency, closed doors in the processes (trials), silence towards them, the slowness of the process, and the question of economic compensation.”
“It seems that things only changed for them when they spoke to you,” the journalist said, recalling that the victims had “made a series of requests.” He asked the pope two questions: “How do you intend to proceed with these requests?” and, second, “would it not be better to set up a department in the Vatican for this purpose, an independent body, as some bishops suggest, to better face this plague and to recover the trust of the faithful?”
Pope Francis first responded to the second question by saying, “There is a structure [in the Vatican] and the president is a Colombian bishop. There is a commission for abuses created by Cardinal [Séan Patrick] O’Malley. This functions, and they receive all the things in the Vatican and discuss them.” Furthermore, he said, “I also receive victims of abuse in the Vatican.”
Pope Francis called his meeting with victims at the nunciature in Brussels a duty. Some, he said, note that according to the statistics “40-46 percent of the abuses happen in the family, in the neighborhood, and only 3 percent in the church.” But Francis said that’s not of importance to him, because “in the church we have a responsibility to help the persons who have been abused, and to take care of them.”
“Some need psychological help, and [we have] to help them this way. Others speak of [the need for] compensation for them,” Francis said, noting that “it’s the civil law.” He noted that in Belgium the compensation is around 50,000 euros and remarked “it’s too low.” But he emphasized, “the victims need to be compensated and the abuser to be punished.”
“Abuse is not a sin that happens today and perhaps tomorrow does not exist,” the pope added. “It’s a tendency, a psychiatric illness, [and] we need to provide them treatment and monitor them that way. One cannot leave an abuser free to live an ordinary life with a responsibility in the parish or in the school.”
He said some bishops that have priests who have abused, and who have been through a trial and been condemned, have assigned them some kind of work such as in a library, but without contact with children in schools or parishes. He said he told the Belgian bishops “not to be afraid and to go ahead,” but he underlined as he did in his homily at Mass today, and in other talks in Belgium, “The shame is to cover up. This is the shame.”
An Italian journalist recalled that yesterday, after the meeting at Louvain University, a communique was published that said, “the university deplores the conservative positions expressed by Pope Francis on the role of women in society.”
The journalist said it is somewhat restrictive to speak of women only in terms of motherhood, fertility and care, and that this too is somewhat discriminatory, because this is a role that also belongs to men. She noted also that both Leuven and Louvain universities raised the issue of ordained ministries in the church.
Pope Francis first commented on Louvain university’s communique which was published as the event was scheduled to end. “This communique was released while I was still speaking,” he said. “It was written beforehand, and this is not moral.”
As for women, the pope said, “I always speak about the dignity of woman. And I said something thing that I cannot say about men: the church is a woman. She is the bride of Jesus. To masculinize the church, to masculinize women is not human, it is not Christian. The feminine has her own strength. In fact, women—and I say this always—are more important than men, because the church is woman, the church is the bride of Jesus.”
He then remarked, “I see there is an obtuse mentality that doesn’t want to hear talk of this.”
As if to reinforce his point, Francis reaffirmed what he has always said, “Woman is equal to man.” He went on to say, “As for ministry, the mysticism of woman is greater than ministry.”
He recalled a theologian who posed the question whether the Petrine of Marian ministry is greater. “The Marian ministry is greater,” the pope explained the line of thought, “because it is a ministry of unity that involves others; the other [the Petrine] is a ministry of overseeing.”
“The maternal [nature] of the church is the maternal [nature] of woman,” he said. “The [Petrine] ministry is a ministry that is much less, [it is] given to accompany the faithful, but always within the maternal [nature] of the church. Many theologians have studied this, and say that is something real, I do not say modern, it is not antiquated.”
In another question to the pope, who was seated in his wheelchair in the central aisle of the plane, a Belgian TV journalist told him that his words on the tomb of King Baudouin had created some astonishment in Belgium and was seen as interference in the democratic life of Belgium. She noted that the process for the king’s beatification appears to be linked to his position [on abortion], and asked the pope: “How do we reconcile the right to life, and the defense of life, with the right of a woman to have a life without suffering?”
Pope Francis said, “The king was courageous, because faced with a law of death, he did not sign it, and he resigned [for a day]. That takes courage, doesn’t it? One needs courage. One needs a politician with pants (as they say in my country),” meaning, “a politician with courage.”
“This was a special situation and [the king] gave a message [by doing so]. He did it because he was a saint. He was a holy man. And the process of beatification will go forward, because we have proof of this,” the pope said.
Then responding to the other part of the question Francis said, “women have the right to life, to their life and the lives of their children. Let’s not forget this. Abortion is murder. Science says that within a month from conception all the organs are already there. One kills a human being. Doctors who engage in this are—pardon the expression—hit men. This cannot be disputed. One kills a human life. And women have the right to protect life.”
His words echoed what he had said on the flight returning from Singapore on Sept.13, in his comments on the American election. Then, Francis added—though he was not asked about it, “Contraceptive methods are another matter, another thing. Let’s not confuse the issues, I am only speaking about abortion. We cannot debate that. Pardon me, but this is the truth.”
