“We in Ireland have been on a long journey, a dark night of the soul.” There is “need for real healing not just of a wound, but of the sick body of the church,” a healing that cannot be accomplished by cardinals or bishops or edicts from Rome, but one that requires the whole community of believers, including women.
That is what Sister Liz Murphy, R.S.M., the secretary general of the Association of Leaders of Missionaries and Religious of Ireland, told America on the eve of Pope Francis’ visit to Ireland.
Sister Murphy has held major leadership roles in her province and traveled across the globe as a consultant to other religious. She has broad teaching experience and earned a Ph.D in psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif., with a dissertation on institutional abuse, an area in which she has gained deep experience.
What has the abuse scandal done to the church in Ireland?
I would say we have been on a long journey, a dark night of the soul. This has been a very dark time. The history of Christianity in Ireland is full of darkness. People have been through many dark times; they have struggled and come through because they have faith.
I think the wounds of institutional abuse and sexual abuse are now only part of a deeper wound, that of an institution that is found to be far, far from its ideals. Some of it is about the sexual abuse, but it’s also about power; it’s about privilege; it’s about secrecy. It’s about what I would call institutionalization. And to try and find a path forward, will come from very large significant gatherings such as we will have in Dublin over these days.
But to expect Pope Francis to come with a strategic plan that will miraculously heal all ills? It’s just stupid to think that.
There’s a lot required to heal a body, not just a wound on a body. What has saved people has been their faith. If my faith is in the institutional church, then it’s good that that is falling apart. But if my faith is in God, in Jesus, then that’s another whole Bible.
I think we are now much nearer a crisis that is about the structure of an institution that is urgently in need of reform. When John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council, he said the church needs to come of age. Now we have a new coming of age.
There are hurdles along the way that will not be overcome by Rome. Our problems will not be fixed by cardinals, will not be fixed even by the pope. They will not be fixed by the clerical church.
These wounds can only be healed by the whole community, which needs to identify and treat them. There is a huge work needed to reach what I would call “real Christianity.” It’s the sacrament of healing; it’s the sacrament of the sick that’s required; it’s belief in those who do not have to uphold the institution at all costs. It will have to be done by others, including women. We come with tenderness; we come with gentleness. Healing does not come with edicts from Rome.
Sister Liz Murphy, R.S.M.: "Our problems will not be fixed by cardinals or by the pope or by the clerical church. These wounds can only be healed by the whole community."
I think the pope would probably share those ideas.
Yes! I watched the documentary “A Man of His Word” and I felt I met the man. I saw his eyes, I saw his face; I saw his hands. I saw him just touching people in hospital with a gentle hand. You could just see it.
I think it was powerful what he did with the Chilean victims, how he brought them to Rome and sat with them and talked…. He was able to say “I was wrong.” To me that was incredible! As I watched the documentary I said, “No wonder the world loves this man; he has got a common touch, he really touches the hearts of people.”
What are people expecting from Pope Francis when he comes to Ireland?
I think I’d want to distinguish between different groups, like those who are the victims of past abuse. I think that group doesn’t know what to expect because they are still too hurt. And when you are hurt, you react, and you react because you just don’t know who to trust. So those who are hurt, I think their expectations may not be met. And I’m sorry about that; I’m sad about that.
For the ordinary people who go to church on Sunday and pray in whatever way they pray, those who are the backbone of parish life—like parish counselors, Eucharistic ministers, those who help out in various ways in parishes and schools and so on—I think his visit will be an affirmation for them that their faith is not in vain.
I think the young that carry some mustard seed of faith will have that faith confirmed too. For those who are disassociated from the church, they just want to see this man; they just want to be in his presence.
So there is no blanket expectation. I would want to look at the populations within the population. This visit will be very difficult for people who have been so hurt by others whom the pope represents. For priests or bishops or cardinals, there is no line of trust there anymore. And when trust is broken at that level—whether it’s the loss of a mother at the Mother and Baby Homes or punishment at the level of sexuality in growth as a sexual being—where all those levels of trust are broken, I don’t know whether they will ever be healed.
Sister Liz Murphy, R.S.M.: "This visit will be very difficult for people who have been so hurt by others whom the pope represents. For priests or bishops or cardinals, there is no line of trust there anymore."
What do you personally expect from Francis’ visit?
I am meeting the pope on Saturday morning at Dublin Castle, which excites me very much. I want to be in the presence of this man who has touched my heart and who has—I won’t say opened the doors for women, because he really hasn’t—but has opened the door of the earth community in a way I think that touches into the feminine. I wish much more could happen for us women. I am beyond the stage of tokenism, of accepting a woman here and a woman there in positions of responsibility, because that doesn’t do it for me at all.
Is there a lot of anger in Ireland over what has happened?
Definitely in terms of the group of the survivors of abuse that I mentioned earlier. Is there a lot of anger? It is very discernible; one can put one’s finger on it very easily among those who are hurt.
As a sister walking the street and meeting a lot of people at the World Meeting of Families as I did today, that anger is not nearly as palpable. For me, having come through leadership roles, I wouldn’t say it’s anger as much as disappointment that despite its contributions of the past, the church’s voice, its gift, has been lost because of the scandals.
Those who worked hard all their lives in schools and hospitals and in various social services and so on? That that can be so easily wiped out. I feel sad about that and I would like the pope to recognize that we have come through a long, hard time representing those that we never even knew. I find that really difficult.
I remember the visitation from Rome in 2011 and 2012 (ordered by Benedict XVI). We were asked what it was like and I said, “I have lived in the Book of Lamentations, because I am lamenting things I did not personally have responsibility for, and I’ve had to stand in the place of others, in this place of crucifixion.” I’d love to hear some recognition for those of us who stand in that place.
You said earlier that the church is now reaching what one might call the epicenter of the crisis now. Is that right?
Yes! I’m not sure we have come to it yet. I think Australia was bad. I think Ireland was very bad. What’s going on in England is very bad. As I look at the reports about abuses at big Catholic schools—Downside and Ampleforth—that is not easy read for me as an educator.
And I ask myself: What is happening in India? What’s happening in Australasia? I think there is more to come. But I hope that will mean more than the naming of people, and seeking financial compensation. More is needed; we have to look at power, corruption, coverup, secrecy, defending the institution.
Sister Liz Murphy, R.S.M.: "I am beyond the stage of tokenism, of accepting a woman here and a woman there in positions of responsibility."
Do you think the pope is on the right track?
Yes, absolutely. But I would just come back to the recent letter he sent to the People of God. I remember a bishop saying to me this evening: “That is a Vatican letter, not a Francis letter.” I wish it had been just one page expressing deep sorrow and sadness and shame and remorse. “I can’t find words,” maybe: lamentation. Like he did for Chile.
How does the visit of the pope to Ireland fit into all this?
First of all, as an Irish woman, I would say that we will never lose the gift of welcome and hospitality. The pope will be warmly welcomed by the majority. Absolutely no doubt. When we say, “Cead mile failte,” a hundred thousand welcomes, we actually mean it.
Pope Francis is likely to meet with some of the victims or survivors of abuse. What do you hope will happen in those encounters?
My hope is that in his meeting with people who are very hurt, maybe he might cry, maybe he might do as I saw in that film; that he might put his hand on somebody’s shoulder or head and maybe pray with them and bless them. It’s not about epistles. It’s not about long letters. It’s about gestures. It’s the prodigal father with the son.
All these scandals have badly hit vocations to the priesthood and religious orders. What can you say about this?
Maybe it’s not a bad thing that many vocations are not coming. I love that passage in the Magnificat where it says, “All generations will call me blessed,” and I like to think that the blessing might be in other forms: in working for justice with migrants and refugees, feeding the homeless, providing housing, and in the care of the earth.
I think there is a blessing there with which the young people identify. It has captured their imagination. And Pope Francis is pointing the way here.
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I wish she had spoken more about how nuns have also abused and deeply wounded children and young adults during the crisis. It is not just priests. It is not just men. Religious orders of women must also step up to the plate and declare their sins and omissions, and their plans to help heal those terrible wounds at the hands of women, at the hands of nuns.