We have been hearing a lot about the sexual abuse crisis from the pulpit, but this past Sunday the pastor at my parish crossed a line. As background, two of our last four pastors have been removed from ministry because of sexual indiscretions. It tore our hearts out to hear the survivors’ accounts. Many of us felt betrayed and devastated to lose priests who had led our parish for years. Somehow, by grace no doubt, much of our parish family kept coming to Mass.
Our new pastor did not mention any of this. Instead, he praised Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò’s letter, which accuses several church leaders, including Pope Francis himself, of covering up allegations of sexual misconduct against former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. This is not a time to leave the church, our pastor said, but to reform it.
After some faint words about loving members of the L.G.B.T. community and recognizing the cross they bear, our pastor brought up the John Jay report on clergy sexual abuse, which was released by the U.S. bishops in 2005. Noting that 81 percent of the survivors in that report were male, our pastor said the cause of the sexual abuse crisis was “predatory homosexuality.” Archbishop McCarrick had a pro-L.G.B.T. agenda, he said, and there are others like him. They are to blame, so said my pastor, for child abuse in the church.
The idea that “predatory homosexuality” is the cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the church is absurd.
“It’s time that all false shepherds be removed from positions of power,” he said. “Any bishop, priest or religious order priest who supports and is active in the homosexual culture needs to be removed from their post.”
A version of that last quote also made it into Prayers of the Faithful. Some parishioners walked out.
After Mass, I exchanged some brief words with my family and friends about leaving our parish, which I’ve attended since my family moved to this country 30 years ago. How ironic that, after two pastors had been removed because of sexual abuse, we would consider leaving because of a homophobic pastor. My 11-year-old son was with me, but he seemed to be more interested in spotting his friends coming out of Mass.
[Explore America’s in-depth coverage of the sex abuse crisis]
“Do you know why we were so upset with Father D.?” I asked him later, one on one. He did not.
“Do you remember what he said in his homily?” He did not.
I explained. I explained that some priests, not all priests but some, had abused children. These priests threatened the children so that they would not tell anyone. These priests tricked families and violated the trust the community had placed in them. I explained how some bishops, not all bishops but some, had covered for these priests. How these bishops prevented the priests from being punished by the police. I explained how some of the bishops who covered for the priests still have not been punished themselves.
“You know what it means to be gay or lesbian, right?” He did. We had talked about it before. “You know that we are not meant to judge people who are different than we are. Jesus doesn’t want that. He wants us to love everyone, even people that are different.” He knows. And he knows that people who are gay and lesbian and bisexual do not choose to be so.
Some Catholics would like to exploit the abuse crisis to promote anti-L.G.B.T. agendas. We cannot stand for it.
“Well, what Father D. said was not nice to people who are gay and lesbian. It was mean. He was basically saying that people who are gay are the reason why there was abuse. And that’s not right. It’s not true. And it’s not what Jesus wants. And it’s even worse because he’s our pastor and he said those things.”
I think he understood.
The abuse of children happens both inside and outside the Catholic Church. Overall,girls are far more likely to be sexually abused than are boys. The idea that “predatory homosexuality” is the cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the church is absurd. It is an old myth that has nothing to do with the facts. It is dangerous.
Over the years, the Catholic Church has taken strides to become more welcoming to the L.G.B.T. community. I am proud of that. What our pastor seemed to argue is that welcoming the L.G.B.T. community is somehow causing sexual abuse. Yet sexual abuse has declined over the years the church has become more welcoming.
There are some Catholics, like our pastor, who would like to exploit the sexual abuse crisis to promote anti-L.G.B.T. agendas. We cannot stand for it. We cannot regress to this.
We must protect our children from predators. The sexual abuse crisis has made that clear. But we must also protect our children from those who demonize people because of their sexual orientation. In all things, we must strive to be like Jesus Christ. Our children will learn from our example.
I'm betting 200 comments on this one.
LMAO. J Cosgrove and Tim ODreary were up to bat first. Shocker!
Close the comments permanently. They are a huge eyesore and a reminder how broken people are
George Vassel - you don't have to read the comments. But, I get the idea. You want to shut the laity up and perpetuate the cover-up. There is nearly a daily horror story - Wash Post article on the two Chicago priests caught in a public sex act. https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/09/05/catholic-priests-accused-having-sex-car-spark-international-uproar/?utm_term=.654b6d9bd050
And that has what to do with abuses that occurred between the 1960s and 1990s, which are only being revealed now?
Youre a hater. Just say it. You hate and fear and thus persecute the LGBTIQ+
Im bisexual, a child abuse survivor, have found God and will be formally Catholic in two months. Get this through your ignorant skull
CHILD SEX ABUSE IS NOT HOMOSEXUALITY! ABUSE OF ALL FORMS IS ABOUT POWER AND CONTROL! YOUR VITRIOLIC FAG BASHING IS A BLIGHT ON MERCY AND LOVE. IT IS DIVISION, AND INDICATIVE OF WHATS IN YOUR HEART
People like you, uninformed, with no concern for abuse survivors at all, make me sick.
Go read LifeSite or Church Militant instead, you'll be amongst your homophobic buddies there
Trent Shannon - Surely you do not think your attitude and speech is temperate or respectful?
I reveals a lack of self-control and immature impulsiveness and outright rudeness.
Can you be more specific about the violation you say you experienced? Was it only verbal and or emotional or definitely sexual? Just make sure in your own mind the true nature of the trauma, the truth is important to your future regardless of what others know or do not know.
Let us talk turkey - your sexuality did not develop normally and there is no evidence that same-sex attraction is genetically determined. Your whole life has been changed presuming that without being violated, you would have been able to transition from child to adolescent to adulthood maturing in your male heterosexual normality with a quite high degree of probability, but not with absolute certainty.
So, you were gravely sinned against and the consequence, lust appetite for males and females with a compulsive element is the scar and deformity left on your psycho-somatic functioning: this is just the same as being crippled by polio or by being run over on purpose and leaving permanent damage in the physical world.
You are not alone.
Damaged sexual attraction and distorted sexual identity is well known to result from abuse - you did not do the harm to yourself but it did change you in a terrible way as self directed guilt, shame, anger and loathing are part of the burden. Jesus took flesh, was born, suffered and died for you. He still looks you full in the face with agape love, titanically stronger that erotic "love", and bid you to accept fellowship with Him. He will help you to heal and forgive and that does not mean, make you straight. Adam and Eve and we were thrown out of the garden of Eden and angels with flaming swords even now guard the way back - it is forbidden to us. We are called forward into the Kingdom of God and the future where 'there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, nor male and female' NT Galatians.
YLMAO. J Cosgrove and Tim ODreary were up to bat first. Shocker!
Close the comments permanently. They are a huge eyesore and a reminder how broken people are 2019 Naija Song, 2019 South Africa Song, 2019 America Song, 2019 Naija Song, 2019 Waec
Yep. Close and then bulldoze "Comments". Then sow the ground with salt.
But Stanley - that would only prove the clericalism.
Tim, Long-Garcia ain't a cleric. Letters to the editor are good enough.
Stanley - as Pope Francis said. You don't have to be ordained to be part of the clericalism problem.
Tim, parties are fine. But when the guests start throwing beer bottles, it's time to close it down. Commonweal closed down comments. NCR closed down but threatens to bring it back. The internet and its spinoffs are disasters. It just brings out the worst in people.
Most readers never comment. They silently take things in. I spent years on a much more contentious forum with atheists as adversaries and it was informative for readers who saw the specious arguments they used and then understood the basis for the atheist's beliefs were bogus. I'm sure it is similar here as people who never comment see who has the more logical arguments.
Tim, instead of scapegoating gays, should focus on the true source of the coverup ... "Saint" JPII (and his head of the CDF Joe Ratzinger), BXVI, and the likes of the former US nuncio, Vigano.
"After an outcry, Groer was replaced and made the prior of a convent. He was never punished and issued only a vague apology in 1998 before retreating to a nunnery where he lived until his death in 2003. Some of his victims were offered “hush money” from the church.
Michael Tfirst, 54, one of Groer’s victims, claims to have reported the abuse to highranking church officials from the 1970s onwards. He says the church paid him £3,300 in 2004 under a contract that obliged him to keep quiet.
“There is no question that Ratzinger knew all the details of reports on abuse within the church, as there is no doubt that John Paul, his superior, took part in a massive and systematic cover-up,” Tfirst said.
John Paul also faced criticism last week from Poland for protecting Archbishop Juliusz Paetz, who was accused of abusing trainee priests. Letters detailing the charges were sent to John Paul’s office and to Ratzinger in 2000 but were ignored. Paetz resigned in 2002 when the allegations became public.
Stanislaw Obirek, a Polish theologian and a former Jesuit priest, said: “I believe John Paul is the key person responsible for the cover-up of abuse cases because most of it occurred during his papacy. How can someone who is to blame for this be beatified?”
In America critics pointed out that although Benedict has borne the brunt of criticism over ignoring the scandal of Father Lawrence Murphy, accused of molesting 200 deaf boys at a special school in Wisconsin, Ratzinger had acted on the authority of John Paul.
Another beneficiary of John Paul’s discreet approach was Marcial Maciel Degollado, a Mexican priest known as Father Maciel, who founded a conservative religious order. He was accused by former members of abuse in 1998. John Paul blessed Maciel in the Vatican in late 2004, at a time when Ratzinger was investigating him. A year after Ratzinger became pope, the Vatican ordered Maciel to lead “a reserved life of prayer and penance”, effectively removing him from power.
John Paul was also accused of ignoring controversy over John Magee, a former private secretary to three popes including the Polish pontiff, who named him Bishop of Cloyne in 1987. Late last month Magee was forced to resign after an independent report found that his diocese in Ireland had put children at risk.
In the Vatican the spiralling allegations have prompted a siege-like mentality. Father Federico Lombardi, Benedict’s spokesman, declined to comment on John Paul’s handling of abuse cases. “We’re busy with Easter celebrations, let’s focus on the homilies,” he said." https://web.archive.org/web/20100531183440/http://www.timesonline.co.uk…
There are two issues. The first has to do with priests messing around with kids. Any report should be sent to the police for investigation and action. It is a legal matter and this what cops are paid to do - investigated reported crime. If there are allegations of rape, these too should be sent to the police. The Church has no standing to investigate these issues. There are alleged civil crimes. The second has to do with sex between consenting adults.
When it involves a priest or religious, this is a Church matter because they took a vow of chasity. Thoroughout my life I have heard of as many cases of priests messing around with the female housekeeper, church secretary or organist as I have of priests having sexual relationship with an adult male. These situations require a determination of whether these guys should be defrocked. If two people want to make out in the back seat of car or engage in other sexual conduct - i’d Tell them to get a room, but let’s be honest - most of us have gone on a date, at some point in our lives, and we “made” out with the girl or guy in the back seat of the car.
Having sex with a child is a pathology and crime. Raping someone is a crime. A priest having sex with a consenting adult is a broken vow. Two people having sex in the car is lust, which is neither a legal matter or a sacramental matter (unless they are married to another person.)
With this said, I suspect their are many secrets held by priests and bishops of sexual escapes - illegal and violations of vows. These secrets impede action.
The only way to deal with this is to form a lay panel and start at the top and gather the files. Review the files and one-by-by one bring in for an interview each priest and ask them two questions - have you had illegal sexual contact? Have had consensual sex with another adult? If it was sex with the another priest or religious, they should ask for the name or names.
I know this sounds like the Inquisition Part Two, but it is the only way to weed it out. If anyone comes forward to admit consensual sex, there should be some mercy in the formula on what to do. If it is a one and done, versus serial activities, the penalities should be different.
Finally, the best response to these issues! A lay board to investigate is the answer as called for by Bishop Barron!
The fact that the chief perpetrators of the cover-ups, the "conservative" pontiffs, John Paul II Wojtylwa, and Benedict XVI Ratzinger, are getting almost none of the blame for what is revealed by Vigano's overheated allegations demonstrates perfectly that the sexual predator McCarrick's case is being used as a pretext by Pope Francis's ultraconservative opponents within the Church to destroy his papacy. They will not concur that he alone, among recent popes, has all along been pro-active in combating the predators, and that he alone is innocent of passing predators off to other dioceses. (Ratzinger in Munich was quite different from Ratzinger in the Roman curia.) l believe the dam against the laity's hatred of the same-sex-attracted has now broken, and there will be no silencing the drums of such as Rod Dreher, stirring the witch hunt against even chaste and celibate clergy. I'm profoundly sorry to say it, but I think it's time for my gay Catholic friends and their supporters to leave the Church, and to find a spiritual home amongst others, who are able to respect them as human beings and ensure their psychological health. Meanwhile, as you search for a new faith home, my friends, keep all gay boys away from the priests, even the straight ones, and do not allow any of your gay children to read the comments on this and other "America" threads.
You are no more Ignatius Loyola than I am a donkey, but you are not somebody anyone would want to keep company with. Hypocrisy, verbal violence and ad hominem attacks are your order of the day.
Grow up, shut up or go away if you are unable or unwilling to enter into adult dialogue.
This happens in Africa. .
This is what author objects to. Why would it lead to homophobia? No reason to be homophobic in this comment by pastor. Isn't this the Pope's, official America, the magazine, and Jesuit policy? Non sequitur!
Dude, that IS homophobia
Here goes. JD - I don't think you were being fully truthful to your child. Sex abuse of minors in the Church is mostly same-sex, the opposite outside the Church. So, your paster was agreeing with Pope Francis, who in May 2018, had the following issued: "It is necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who 1) practice homosexuality, 2) present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or 3) support the so-called gay culture." Why, if these 3 groups are excluded from the seminary, shouldn't they be excluded from the active priesthood? Wouldn't it be unjust and hypocritical to do otherwise?
Exactly it goes against all the pastoral guidelines in the Church to admit those who suffer from homosexual tendencies to the clerical life. They are there for good reason and the recent crisis shows us why.
Wow "suffer"
You care more about hating homos than victims of the priests. FYI, as an abuse survivor, you dont know suffering, nor how abuse is about power and control... and as a bisexual, you have no idea how sexuality works.
How dare you decide who becomes ordained or not! There is no catechism that says "no gays allowed" - and if you think the activities are a sin, i raise you the 25 years ive borne one cross for predation by 3 hetero offenders, and the 36 years ive borne the other one for the emotional abuse by my mother
Abuse is a sin that affects people for the rest of their lives. Celibate gay men do not even come close to sin
Youre a homophobe, plain and simple. And you dont guve a damn about survivors for all your hate
The pastor sounded pretty on-target to me.
You sound very homophobic to me
Child abuse (physical, sexual, emotional) is about power and control. Child sex abuse is predominantly committed by heterosexuals. In predominantly male environments (boys church choirs, altar boys, boys boarding schools etc) victims will predominantly be male
Oh and the abuses are passed. Since the 1990s and especially since Spotlight in 2002, church attitudes and reporting of abuse has changed dramatically.
The abuse and the cover up has NOTHING to do with homosexuality or homosexuals in the church. It is ABUSE, its own pathology/psychopathy, both in the actual abuse, and the clerical "defend the church at all costs" mishandling of the situation. And you are forgetting about survivors, let alone the way forward
Thanks for dragging me down as a triple CSA survivor, a bisexual, AND a soon to be catholic
i loved the comment:'' we will not regress with him!'' made in reference to the pastors obvious!?!?!?! homophobia (which, the last time that i looked, is a sin!!! no: we will not regress. the pastor will sit on his parapet and dream of the days when we''would regress.' but in the meantime, we have gotten to know too many gay people ,,,in our families...in ourselves...in our church gatherings... in our friends..etc etc etc. NO... WE WILL NOT REGRESS!!!!
Karen,
They don’t need your collusion. They need your prayers. My cousin is lesbian. I pray for her year round for years. She does not need me giving her high fives. Read Romans chapter one. It says gay desire starts from a previous break with God. There are cases aside from that which involve physical tragedy like the chimera who is the result of fraternal boy and girl twins merging in the first moments after conception and resulting in one person with both dna. There are other cases. But we all know those who started out sometimes in normal marriages and became gay later. A deep break with God...can cause that. The problem within Catholicism is that Popes have ignored scripture on the death penalty.....theologians have ignored scripture in
the empty hell school ( read Christ saying the opposite in Lk. 13:24)....Pope Benedict ignored multiple scriptures as he painted the OT prophets as pacifist in Verbum Domini 42....ps several killed other people for God...Elijah and Samuel.
So you and countless Catholics have also followed their lead. Don’t. Your gay relatives and friends need your prayers...not your “ hail fellow well met”. Read Romans chapter one......it is ultimately not Paul but the Holy Spirit per Vatican II in Dei Verbum.
Homophobia is not a sin, its a made up word.
Do you know anyone who has a fear of of the sexual proclivities of another person?
No, but you might be mistaken about the fear some people might have for the eternal sake of our brethren.
We should fear the eternal destiny of our souls and the souls of others for this is charitable.
What the Church calls sinful do not call it as something good, and if you do, start your own church and then call it what you will.
I see your last sentence ending, NO...WE WILL NOT BE OBEDIENT!!!!
“Do you know anyone who has a fear of of the sexual proclivities of another person?”
Lassie Rin Tin Tin, Mauser Schnauzer, whatever your pseudo persona is today, you are not only homophobic but veriphobic. Ask Mr Ed the Talking Horse to define it for you since you cant think for yourself. Now go piss on a fire hydrant Schnauzer.
That was a real question as I really cannot name one person who has an irrational fear of another persons choice of a sex partner.
Your irrational outburst is an attempt to portray the word homophobia as some fact, like a common disease that has been contracted by most everyone who then can be fittingly exposed by you.
The word was "fear", not bias or dislike or even hatred.
The only fear I see is in your words, chosen to express anger but only comes across as petulance.
In my youth, there were some quite terrible things going on in ordinary suburban Sydney and I have no reason to doubt it was representative of suburbia the world over.
Young unmarried males usually virginal, often with alcohol inside them to bolster their courage, would descend on sites known to be places where queers hooked up or had sex, beats, and would bash any they found at it at the time and sometimes they needed hospital and I have no doubt, some were killed. That was poofter bashing as the nice word gay had not yet been stolen. They could not care less about lesbians, a revealing point to note.
In the same community and very much more rarely, a young male would be tried for murder and acquitted on the grounds of homosexual panic, a term used from orthodox psychiatric practice at the time. In modern days these people would be the real homophobic individuals. Rare and different from the others described above.
The strong antipathy for males who might suddenly act seductively or sexually which is apparent in young males is disgust and anger as well as fear - it seems to be common and normal and yet another manifestation of fallen human nature.
As such, education and legislation may alter behaviour slightly but will not change the inherent loathing in young males for male homosexuals and NO social actions will alter basic human nature, the core error of Marxist dreams.
Hello Karen...Since when is telling the Truth a Sin?...Didn't You notice that 81% of the Catholic Church Clergy Sexual Abuse Cases were Male on Male...That is Homosexuality. A Very Serious Sin...In case You have Forgotten; Here is the Catholic Church Teaching on Human Sexuality in a Nut-Shell >>> The Only Acceptable Human Sexual Activity is Between a Married Man and Woman with an Openness to New Life...Any other Sexual Activity is Grossly Sinful! Got That...If you won't accept that...Call Yourself a Cafeteria Catholic from now on! This is not Homophobic...Of Course all LGBTQ People are called to an Encounter with Jesus Christ wherever they are in their Lives...But we all hope that the Encounter with Jesus Christ will cause all People to do what Jesus Christ Commands through the Teaching Authority of His Church, The Body of Christ on Earth, So that one Day we will all appear Spotless and Perfect before Our lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Servant of Jesus Christ, John
“The idea that “predatory homosexuality” is the cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the church is absurd.”
Why is that ? The danger with ruling out a possible cause for a bad thing is, that the possibility one does not want to face may after all be a, or the, cause of the bad thing. But if a, or the, true cause has been ruled out in advance, the same cause or causes may in future give rise to a repetiition of the bad thing. Such a possibility may for all sorts of reasons, good or bad, be very unwelcome, and painful to consider. That is not a reason not to consider it. What is the evidence of all the known facts, so far as they can be ascertained ?
It is not clear why “predatory homosexuality” cannot possibly be a, or the, cause. Predatory behaviour, sexual or not, is ugly behaviour; there is nothing Christian in treating others as prey. Trying to get rid of such behaviour, is, one would have thought, very desirable for the well-being of all. There is nothing about trying to get rid of it that is inherently gay-baiting, or unfair to same-sex attracted Catholics. There is a difference between exploiting a painful occurrence, & trying to get to the causes of it. And doing the latter, can sometimes be mistaken for doing the former.
“We must protect our children from predators”
Amen. Predators abound at the expense of trusting Catholics. Revenue driven organizations like Legatus, EWTN, Napa Institue and other Catholic fundamentalist groups should be stripped by competent authorities of using the word Catholic in their predator fund raising schemes and spreading lies. A few on these forums are unabashed predators and deserve the millstone award
...we must protect our children from fund raising organizations?
The homosexual crisis that has destroyed countless souls in the Church is not really a priority problem but you've apparently staggered onto a root cause! Wow!
“the predatory pharisaical Catholics that has destroyed countless souls in the Church”
ftfy, Millstone
Sure, anyone who doesn't affirm you in your confusion is a pharisee-like destroyer of souls and on their way to hell. Thanks for setting me straight.
“Thanks for setting me...”....Mauser Schnauzer? Seriously?
You couldnt rub 2 sticks together to invent a more creative name? Was Lassie Rin TIn Tin not available?
Sorry that it upsets you so...a long story behind it, but its not that big of a deal.
After reading the article, I simply commented on posts I thought were extreme as it relates to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
That's it Georgie - keep the focus off the homosexual predators. This is how a cover-up sustains itself.
Mr Garcia, Respectfully, Please take a look at my comments following some of Your statements in this Article >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Our pastor brought up the John Jay report on clergy sexual abuse, which was released by the U.S. bishops in 2005. Noting that 81 percent of the survivors in that report were male, our pastor said the cause of the sexual abuse crisis was “predatory homosexuality.” Archbishop McCarrick had a pro-L.G.B.T. agenda, he said, and there are others like him. They are to blame, so said my pastor, for child abuse in the church.our pastor brought up the John Jay report on clergy sexual abuse, which was released by the U.S. bishops in 2005. Noting that 81 percent of the survivors in that report were male, our pastor said the cause of the sexual abuse crisis was “predatory homosexuality.” Archbishop McCarrick had a pro-L.G.B.T. agenda, he said, and there are others like him. They are to blame, so said my pastor, for child abuse in the church. >>>> Your Pastor only told the Truth and You won't accept it...This has nothing to do with Homophobia. Wake Up!
“It’s time that all false shepherds be removed from positions of power,” he said. “Any bishop, priest or religious order priest who supports and is active in the homosexual culture needs to be removed from their post.” >>>> Thank You Jesus for a Courageous Pastor of His Flock that tells the Truth! This has nothing to do with Homophobia...Wake Up!...Pope Francis said the same thing!!!
“Well, what Father D. said was not nice to people who are gay and lesbian. It was mean. He was basically saying that people who are gay are the reason why there was abuse. >>>>> Yes, It might be mean but sometimes the Truth Hurts and You won't admit it. It has nothing to do with Homophobia. 81% of the survivors of Catholic Clergy Sexual Abuse in the report were male!
The abuse of children happens both inside and outside the Catholic Church. Overall,girls are far more likely to be sexually abused than are boys. >>> That may be true but We are talking about the Catholic Church and not about a Movie or Cable Mogul. Can't You Understand That? Wake Up! Servant of Jesus Christ, John
Our pastor would like to exploit the sexual abuse crisis to promote anti-L.G.B.T. agendas. >>> He is only calling a Spade A Spade. I.E. > Telling the Truth!
“Any bishop, priest or religious order priest who supports and is active in the homosexual culture needs to be removed from their post.” I agree but he left out a very serious element - he needed to include sexually active and promotional heterosexual clergy. There are many more of them according to Sipe.
Correct. Both are grave evils. Both evidence a failure of fidelity, virtue, and holiness. Both have desecrated their vows!
"How ironic that, after two pastors had been removed because of sexual abuse, we would consider leaving because of a homophobic pastor". Yes, that is indeed ironic, and a little troubling actually.
Stephen - this was the most revealing quote from JD Garcia. The sexual abuse of minors did not "cross a line" but reiterating what the Church actually teaches (even Pope Francis in his words and actions) did. I completely agree with you that all sexually active clergy (with men or women) must be dismissed from the priesthood, but the gay lobby is forever trying to cover up the majority problem by trying to make it generic. Members on the National Review Board resigned when the John Jay Report was expunged of the more obvious findings. One member, Dr. Paul McHugh, former psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins University, said that "This behavior was homosexual predation on American Catholic youth; yet it's not being discussed." The investigation needs to find out who ordered this out of the report.
I agree with you, too, Tim. It is the lack of discussion and worse, the lack of the willingness to discuss this element (as one of the elements) that makes people suspicious and believe that there is a gay cabal running the show. Having been discussing this for the last few weeks on Twitter and elsewhere, I'm starting to believe, for the very reason that so many are constantly trying to deflect attention away from the issue of gay clergy and their role in the the overall picture which yes, does include other 'causes'. This deflection is almost the same as when the church was first being confronted with clergy sexual abuse - deflection, denial, dissociation, until it became so painfully obvious that they couldn't do that anymore. But, it's still going on, only more subtly and one could say deviously now when it comes to the cover up networks and who is in them. Once you discover who knows who, who had sex with who, ho promoted, and, who didn't report, well many things become clear. If we just argue about issues such as this one there is far less chance of things becoming clear.
Many comments fuel a type of hatred and moral confusion by implying that immoral homosexual acts by clergy are more serious than immoral heterosexual acts by clergy.
Here is what we should be agreeing with regarding the sexual abuse crisis and coverup.
1. All clergy (priests bishops, cardinals or popes) that sexually abuse minors or adults, or have immoral consensual sexual acts with adults should be defrocked.
>> It does not make any difference if immoral sexual acts are homosexual or heterosexual.
2. The problem is "moral corruption, the breaking of the vows of celibacy and chastity, within a culture of clericalism which directly or indirectly encourages such behavior and its coverup."
3. The answer is not to prohibit well adjusted and mature homosexual men from entering the priesthood who want to love and serve God as priests. Nor is the solution to 'somehow' defrock all priests who are homosexual...as though this could be ascertained with moral certainty. The overwhelming percent of homosexual priests are good priests that do the Lord's work.
Spot on, Michael.
Nazis didnt bat an eye about killing homosexuals
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Holocaust
Fundamentalist Conservative Catholics are no different
I don't doubt there'd be one or two nutters who would agree with you but this is otherwise a heartless exaggeration which shows you are not really reading what people are saying. Yes, there are many lessons to learn still, on both sides. And I've got to say it: I'm sure there'd be a few LGBTIQ+ nutters who would be quite happy to kill off conservative Christians. No group is exempt from nuttiness. Speaking of Nazis: One quote I always remember from a concentration camp survivor, Victor Frankyl: After everything he'd gone through he still didn't take sides and said there are only two races/types of people, good and evil.